When using a new flour I set out six little dishes and mix up 75, 80, 85, 90, 95, and 100% hydrations, let sit for 20-30 minutes, then see how each behaves when manipulated. One bad experience with under-hydrated dough was enough.
Ali, this is fascinating…what a great find! As I’m learning more about pizza and bread doughs, I feel very lucky as a reader to be the beneficiary of your experiments and points of learning.
(Also, my Challenger bread pan is on the way, I’ve got extra pizza dough in the fridge, and I’ll be making baguettes with it SO soon! 🥳)
Amazing! The Challenger bread pan is such a good one — very heavy — but it performs. I hope your baguettes are a success. I hope you are still enjoying a wild European adventure 🤞
I’m so excited! 🤗 While my European adventure is over, my pizza adventure restarts tonight, and my sourdough adventure will soon begin in earnest. (Been studying your step-by-step sourdough bread recipe + tips and can’t wait to dig in!)
Fascinating! I had no idea flour had a measurement of hydration. Incredibly helpful. I use a WA State locally milled flour Cairnsprings - going to ask them if they'd consider adding this measurement.
LOVE Cairnsprings. I have been meaning to do a post using 100% Cairnsprings flour. I would also be so interested if you get an answer back from them. Everyone I've interacted with over there has been fabulous.
I emailed them and this was their response: Thank you so much for reaching out and for your question! Looking at the flour you are showing, it is Tipo 1, which typically has an ash content of 0.80%. I would say most of our flours, like Trailblazer and Expresso, are milled to a T85 which is around 0.80~0.90% ash, and should likely take approximately the same level of hydration as the flour you are showing. The Glacier Peak would be closer to a 0.70, which is just above a Tipo 0 which has a max of 0.65% ash. And our Whole Grain Expresso, where nothing is sifted off, will handle more hydration than the rest. How much hydration can also depend on what the item being made is, and what result the baker is looking for, and how comfortable they are at handling high hydration doughs. I have heard of customers using higher than 80% hydration for their sourdoughs in search of that big open crumb structure. I hope this helps! Please feel free to reach out if you have any more questions.
Maryellen, this is great…saving this for future reference! (Maybe that’s the solution to Ali’s labeling question: just email our favorite mills/flour companies directly, ha!)
Ali l love it!! You're almost insane delving into and testing these flours!! That is pretty hard core and l totally approve, admire and respect. This way you can be the crazy person in the room, and not me which l tend to be usually!!
It's a tough life somedays!!!
Keep up the great work and never change!! Please never!!!
This was Cairnsprings response to my inquiry about their flour's hydration level: Thank you so much for reaching out and for your question! Looking at the flour you are showing, it is Tipo 1, which typically has an ash content of 0.80%. I would say most of our flours, like Trailblazer and Expresso, are milled to a T85 which is around 0.80~0.90% ash, and should likely take approximately the same level of hydration as the flour you are showing. The Glacier Peak would be closer to a 0.70, which is just above a Tipo 0 which has a max of 0.65% ash. And our Whole Grain Expresso, where nothing is sifted off, will handle more hydration than the rest. How much hydration can also depend on what the item being made is, and what result the baker is looking for, and how comfortable they are at handling high hydration doughs. I have heard of customers using higher than 80% hydration for their sourdoughs in search of that big open crumb structure. I hope this helps! Please feel free to reach out if you have any more questions.
This is super interesting! Especially your comment about protein. I once had a brief conversation with Glenn Roberts of Anson Mills about protein and gluten, assuming that higher protein meant more, stronger gluten. Not always! I wish I could explain his answer, but I was so awestruck by his calling me on the phone to respond to my question, that I nearly fainted. Imagine the rock star of whole grains on the line! So these anomalies you're researching are fascinating and your deductions so helpful. I really admire the pursuit.
This is fantastic! So fascinating that one flour will react differently than another. And this post validates my long-held suspicion that baking recipes, do not in fact, have to be rigidly followed. Some may find that disheartening but I find it empowering! 💪👩🏼🍳
I'm sorry! 😩 I thought the Prime Day Sale had continued but I think it's just because I have a business account. When I view it when I'm logged in it still says $13.99... when I log out, I see it's $20. I've deleted the link.
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 Brick Oven Baker folks are great! Along with this on the bag, I really (really!) wish more folks who make instructional baking content would call out the differences in hydration capability among different flours when posting recipes. This is also why I love using (though, not paying for 🫠) Italian and EU flours... there's SO MUCH more information available to the everyday consumer. I imagine you could *maybe* get this kind of info from King Arthur, but you'd probably have to have Martin Philip's direct line 😂
I'm surprised Martin's direct line isn't posted on the KAF website... they're so generous with their accessibility! Have you ever called the baker's hotline? It's pretty incredible. Totally agree that I wish more flour companies would make this information available.
Your experimentation is so helpful and relevant as I just made a UK based bagel recipe. (The recipe was written for 50% hydration, but I needed to go to 60% to get the dough to come together.)
Forgive me is this is a stupid question, but how can you use the supported hydration percentage on the bag when converting from UK flour recipe to US flour? I understand in your example your 77% dough would be to wet for the 5063 flour, but wouldn't the supported hydration number listed need to be a range, say 50-70%, so you know the lower limit for less hydrated doughs? Sorry if that's too confusing! Thanks for all your insight.
Not confusing — I think you are right: a range would be ideal! I also think it may take some trial and error to find the magic ratio of flour to water give the type of bread you are baking, the flour, and your environment.
I'm sorry! 😩 I thought the Prime Day Sale had continued but I think it's just because I have a business account. When I view it when I'm logged in it still says $13.99... when I log out, I see it's $20. I've deleted the link.
When using a new flour I set out six little dishes and mix up 75, 80, 85, 90, 95, and 100% hydrations, let sit for 20-30 minutes, then see how each behaves when manipulated. One bad experience with under-hydrated dough was enough.
Wow! I'm so impressed by this. So smart. Can't believe I've never thought to do anything like this.
Credit to The Bread Code on YouTube.
Ali, this is fascinating…what a great find! As I’m learning more about pizza and bread doughs, I feel very lucky as a reader to be the beneficiary of your experiments and points of learning.
(Also, my Challenger bread pan is on the way, I’ve got extra pizza dough in the fridge, and I’ll be making baguettes with it SO soon! 🥳)
Amazing! The Challenger bread pan is such a good one — very heavy — but it performs. I hope your baguettes are a success. I hope you are still enjoying a wild European adventure 🤞
I’m so excited! 🤗 While my European adventure is over, my pizza adventure restarts tonight, and my sourdough adventure will soon begin in earnest. (Been studying your step-by-step sourdough bread recipe + tips and can’t wait to dig in!)
Fascinating! I had no idea flour had a measurement of hydration. Incredibly helpful. I use a WA State locally milled flour Cairnsprings - going to ask them if they'd consider adding this measurement.
LOVE Cairnsprings. I have been meaning to do a post using 100% Cairnsprings flour. I would also be so interested if you get an answer back from them. Everyone I've interacted with over there has been fabulous.
Ooh, I’d be so curious if you reported back…I’m in Tacoma and love Cairnspring Mills!
I am going to try calling them. I was in their mill last spring to get a tour and they seen so nice.
Oh my gosh...a mill tour sounds SO cool!
I emailed them and this was their response: Thank you so much for reaching out and for your question! Looking at the flour you are showing, it is Tipo 1, which typically has an ash content of 0.80%. I would say most of our flours, like Trailblazer and Expresso, are milled to a T85 which is around 0.80~0.90% ash, and should likely take approximately the same level of hydration as the flour you are showing. The Glacier Peak would be closer to a 0.70, which is just above a Tipo 0 which has a max of 0.65% ash. And our Whole Grain Expresso, where nothing is sifted off, will handle more hydration than the rest. How much hydration can also depend on what the item being made is, and what result the baker is looking for, and how comfortable they are at handling high hydration doughs. I have heard of customers using higher than 80% hydration for their sourdoughs in search of that big open crumb structure. I hope this helps! Please feel free to reach out if you have any more questions.
Maryellen, this is great…saving this for future reference! (Maybe that’s the solution to Ali’s labeling question: just email our favorite mills/flour companies directly, ha!)
I love you for all your nerdiness. 🥰😘
Thank you 🥰🥰🥰🥰
Ali l love it!! You're almost insane delving into and testing these flours!! That is pretty hard core and l totally approve, admire and respect. This way you can be the crazy person in the room, and not me which l tend to be usually!!
It's a tough life somedays!!!
Keep up the great work and never change!! Please never!!!
🤣🤣🤣 Thank you, Branka! I will do my best 🤞🤞🤞
This was Cairnsprings response to my inquiry about their flour's hydration level: Thank you so much for reaching out and for your question! Looking at the flour you are showing, it is Tipo 1, which typically has an ash content of 0.80%. I would say most of our flours, like Trailblazer and Expresso, are milled to a T85 which is around 0.80~0.90% ash, and should likely take approximately the same level of hydration as the flour you are showing. The Glacier Peak would be closer to a 0.70, which is just above a Tipo 0 which has a max of 0.65% ash. And our Whole Grain Expresso, where nothing is sifted off, will handle more hydration than the rest. How much hydration can also depend on what the item being made is, and what result the baker is looking for, and how comfortable they are at handling high hydration doughs. I have heard of customers using higher than 80% hydration for their sourdoughs in search of that big open crumb structure. I hope this helps! Please feel free to reach out if you have any more questions.
Amazing! Thank you for sharing all of this information. Maybe one day they'll include these specs on their bags. Love their flour so much.
This is super interesting! Especially your comment about protein. I once had a brief conversation with Glenn Roberts of Anson Mills about protein and gluten, assuming that higher protein meant more, stronger gluten. Not always! I wish I could explain his answer, but I was so awestruck by his calling me on the phone to respond to my question, that I nearly fainted. Imagine the rock star of whole grains on the line! So these anomalies you're researching are fascinating and your deductions so helpful. I really admire the pursuit.
I might have to give him a call!
This is fantastic! So fascinating that one flour will react differently than another. And this post validates my long-held suspicion that baking recipes, do not in fact, have to be rigidly followed. Some may find that disheartening but I find it empowering! 💪👩🏼🍳
So true! You have to rely on visual cues and make adjustments based on your observations.
I love that. 🙌
I clicked on the link to order book for $13.99 and the price is $20.99. Help! Please!
I'm sorry! 😩 I thought the Prime Day Sale had continued but I think it's just because I have a business account. When I view it when I'm logged in it still says $13.99... when I log out, I see it's $20. I've deleted the link.
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 Brick Oven Baker folks are great! Along with this on the bag, I really (really!) wish more folks who make instructional baking content would call out the differences in hydration capability among different flours when posting recipes. This is also why I love using (though, not paying for 🫠) Italian and EU flours... there's SO MUCH more information available to the everyday consumer. I imagine you could *maybe* get this kind of info from King Arthur, but you'd probably have to have Martin Philip's direct line 😂
I'm surprised Martin's direct line isn't posted on the KAF website... they're so generous with their accessibility! Have you ever called the baker's hotline? It's pretty incredible. Totally agree that I wish more flour companies would make this information available.
I have not! But, now I’m determined to find reason to! Thanks for the tip🙏🏻 (and the great Substack AND website AND…)
Your experimentation is so helpful and relevant as I just made a UK based bagel recipe. (The recipe was written for 50% hydration, but I needed to go to 60% to get the dough to come together.)
Forgive me is this is a stupid question, but how can you use the supported hydration percentage on the bag when converting from UK flour recipe to US flour? I understand in your example your 77% dough would be to wet for the 5063 flour, but wouldn't the supported hydration number listed need to be a range, say 50-70%, so you know the lower limit for less hydrated doughs? Sorry if that's too confusing! Thanks for all your insight.
Not confusing — I think you are right: a range would be ideal! I also think it may take some trial and error to find the magic ratio of flour to water give the type of bread you are baking, the flour, and your environment.
It totally makes sense. I’d like to try this brand for bagels. Yep I’m a def carb gal
Book is not on sale
I'm sorry! 😩 I thought the Prime Day Sale had continued but I think it's just because I have a business account. When I view it when I'm logged in it still says $13.99... when I log out, I see it's $20. I've deleted the link.
It’s ok. I bought it anyway. You have provided so many great recipes the years. Keep up the great work. Thanks!
Awww thank you so much... means a lot :)